Getting Snakes from the US to Canada

[ArcadiaReptiles]

Hey everyone. My friend from the states has a couple of corns she'd be willing to sell me but the only problem is, we need to find a way to have em shipped over here.

I know some people here have had snakes from Kathy love and such. How do you guys go about it? How could i have em crossed over the border?

[HanneysCorns]

Camille, any corns I have imported have required me to cross the border and bring them back. Luckily I have a U.S. contact who received the snakes for me.

If you don't have someone to receive the shipment on the U.S. side, I have heard of a few cases where folks have arranged to have them delivered to a FedEx office in a border town. You'll have to co-ordinate your ability to be there on the date of arrival at the FedEx office to pick them up.

I would suggest the best scenario would be a scheduled visit to your friend's to pick them up.

Not much help...but maybe one day we'll see an easier way. Until then, we just have to drool over what our Southern neighbours produce.

Ruth

[vanderkm]

Canada does not restrict the import of snakes (non-CITES species) other than requiring you to pay GST on their purchase value when you bring them into the country. The issues with importation come from having to comply with the export regulations of US Fish and Wildlife because even captive born and bred reptiles are considered wildlife in the US (and in most of Canada too).

The US Fish and Wildlife regulations with respect to export can be found here http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/CommWil...portExport.htm. There are user fees, inspections and licenses required to legally export wildlife commercially from the US. These requirements are why most US breeders will not export corns to Canada - it just isn't worth the hassle of inspections to ship a relatively low value order.

There are some indications that a small, personal pet shipment may be exempt from these requirements if animals are not intended to be used commercially (and it is up to interpretation whether importing breeding stock is a 'commercial' enterprise). Be aware that even if you are a Canadian, if you go to the US and bring animals into Canada, you are breaking the law if you are not informed about, and do not comply with, US laws related to export.

Does this mean that many people do not drive across the border, pick up an order of snakes in the US and drive back with them in their vehicle, whether they are for commercial purposes or not? There is no inspection by the US Customs of vehicles leaving the US. The Canadian Customs have no mandate to, or interest in, enforcing US regulations, and they are generally not aware of the detailed regs related to exporting reptiles. They refer only to the Canadian regulations that allow cornsnakes without restriction.

What people choose to do is up to them, I am not judging anyone for the choices they make, but I think it is important for the hobby to be clear about what is legal and what is not. Bringing a group of snakes from the US to Canada for commercial reasons (sale, breeding, etc - anything involved with selling products) without complying with US Fish and Wildlife regulations is not legal. Individual pets may be exempt from this requirement - you would have to obtain confirmation on the shipment from US Fish and Wildlife. Bringing in anything to Canada without declaring it and paying the appropriate GST is illegal - it is smuggling and authorities can seize not only the smuggled items but also your vehicle and other assets if you are caught. I urge people to take this seriously. I don't like paying GST and Customs fees any more than anyone else, but it is important to recognize that it is legally required.

My reason for repeating this information every time the topic of bringing snakes into Canada from the US is raised is that I believe information in public forums should consider the laws involved. The hobby is under enough scrutiny as it is, and any bad press can jeopardize our privilege to keep these animals in captivity. The laws in Saskatchewan are already very restrictive - we need import and export permits to move reptiles into and out of the province as well!! I know that regulators monitor discussion forums to target illegal activities.

I am confident that Ruth and others here are informed about and compliant with the laws involved. On other forums, people have suggested that it is easy or legal to just drive snakes accross the border without reporting to customs and I think it is important that public forums do not seem to support illegal activity.


mary v.

[ArcadiaReptiles]

Id have absolutely no way of crossing the border. and to have snakes shipped over to canada by plane it costs 400$. I contacted Kathy love about it.

[TandJ]

The laws in Saskatchewan are already very restrictive - we need import and export permits to move reptiles into and out of the province as well!! I know that regulators monitor discussion forums to target illegal activities.

Saskatchewan is retarded about the restrictive laws.. No boids, must register any in coming or out going reptiles.. Part of it is a money grab, which is pathetic.. You would think they would stay out of our pockets, considering how much that province rapes and piledges our pockets for..

Not to sound rude Mary, but how would you know if the Regulators are trolling forums looking for "illegal" reptile schemes? Sort of seems they are trying to over regulate an industry that might actually bring some revenue to the provincial coiffers, instead of driving it away..* shakes head *

Regards Tim of T and J

[vanderkm]

Originally Posted by T and J

Saskatchewan is retarded about the restrictive laws.. No boids, must register any in coming or out going reptiles.. Part of it is a money grab, which is pathetic.. You would think they would stay out of our pockets, considering how much that province rapes and piledges our pockets for..

Not to sound rude Mary, but how would you know if the Regulators are trolling forums looking for "illegal" reptile schemes? Sort of seems they are trying to over regulate an industry that might actually bring some revenue to the provincial coiffers, instead of driving it away..* shakes head *

Regards Tim of T and J

Have to disagree that it is a money grab to get permits for import or export of reptiles - the permits are free!! It is a minor inconvenience to apply for and receive permits in Saskatchewan - the turnaround time is quite quick and the people have always been very good to work with.

In answer to how I know that people from the regulatory side of things (in several provinces, not just Saskatchewan) are aware of what goes on in the hobby - suffice it to say that I know individuals - they are fully aware of the breadth of the hobby and stay informed. They are not 'out to get' individual hobbiests, but they stay informed - it is part of their job and for many people who work for environment, it is a personal concern - that the natural resources are protected in their jurisdiction. I am always concerned that the hobby present itself in a good light - and to me, that means not endorsing illegal activities in a public forum. I think Florida and burmese pythons is a good example of how hobbiests can have a dramatic and negative impact on the natural environment. Not that Saskatchewan is at risk of having burmese pythons survive in the wild, but some regulation can serve a purpose.

I do agree that the regulations here are overly restrictive and efforts have been made to have them reconsidered, but changing acts and regulations is a challenge in a parlamentary system - not something that happens quickly or without significant push - and currently there is not enough motivation for any change to happen here, in my opinion.


mary v.

[TandJ]

They are not 'out to get' individual hobbiests, but they stay informed - it is part of their job and for many people who work for environment, it is a personal concern - that the natural resources are protected in their jurisdiction.

Sure seems like they want to know what I am doing, and by doing that they cross my personal boundries by thier personal concern. They obviously know most species of reptiles could thrive through the winter monthes is escaped. The permits might be free, but so should our freedoms..

I do agree that the regulations here are overly restrictive and efforts have been made to have them reconsidered, but changing acts and regulations is a challenge in a parlamentary system - not something that happens quickly or without significant push - and currently there is not enough motivation for any change to happen here, in my opinion.

Mary, I am in complete agreement..There is no motivation, because the a lot of people feel these officials will make the best choices for them, when in fact the people are being stripped of their freedoms more and more. Unfortunantly, most people do not notice or want to even be bothered. Unless of course it is gun control or minimum wage, then nothing else seems to matter IMHO..


This has certainly turned into a decent discussion though..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

[RyanW]

I've been living in Saskatchewan and dealing with the import/export laws for a long time now and personally I don't mind it at all, Penny Lalonde (the woman who issues the permits) is very helpfull and has become genuinly interested in reptiles. I've heard before that other provinces have similar regulations in place for import and export but they are for the most part ignored, do you which provinces have similar laws by any chance Mary? I guess I can ask Penny too as I want to contact her before I move to BC with all my herps.

I also have no problem with anyone browsing the forums, it is their job and the internet is a tool for them the same as it is for any of us. Personally I'd rather work with government officals as a community to weed out the people conducting any illegal activities, it could only improve our relationship with them.

[vanderkm]

Originally Posted by T and J

Sure seems like they want to know what I am doing, and by doing that they cross my personal boundries by thier personal concern. They obviously know most species of reptiles could thrive through the winter monthes is escaped. The permits might be free, but so should our freedoms...............

This has certainly turned into a decent discussion though..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

I don't want to take this too far off the original topic, though discussion is good - but I guess there is always the balance between individual 'freedom' and the public good. When people have the mandate to protect a pubically 'owned' resource, they have the authority (granted to them by their role and responsibilities) to infringe on individual freedoms. I do think an individual's personal boundaries become pretty fuzzy when information is public - as on a forum - part of the reason I think it is unwise to promote or support illegal or questionable practices.

Ryan - I am think the best source of info on provincial regs for import or export is to check with the individual provincial wildlife authorities - and even they are not always consistent - but most have web pages. I am not up to date on any province except Saskatchewan. Best of luck on the big move!

mary v.

[TandJ]

part of the reason I think it is unwise to promote or support illegal or questionable practices.

I don't promote illegal practices, nor do I encourage people to do so..

I just take issue to Governments taking issue to a natrual citizens hobby to where the requirement is to let them know what kind of animals I might have.. Might just be the libritarian side of me ( which is not a liberial view... ) which is pretty intolerant of Government being involved in my private life. No I am not an anti government nut case, because there is a place for it, but it should not chastise its citizens for keeping snakes as pet or as a hobby farm so to speak.. Unfortunantly this is the type of Government we have chosen in Canada, and it is a an absolute shame they appear to make some laws on a form of skeptical bias or even by a basic sterotype, or at least this is what it appears to me.. I agree Mary, that it is a shame that a lot of people could care less eithier, essentially letting their rights and mine slowly become disolved..

When people have the mandate to protect a pubically 'owned' resource, they have the authority (granted to them by their role and responsibilities) to infringe on individual freedoms.

What publically owned resource are they protecting by mandating a permission slip for me to bring a non native species that would not survive over the winter? I agree Mary, if this is the type of Government, people are willing to settle for, so be it, the Government will continue to infringe on every body, but it does not make it right for us eithier...

I also have no problem with anyone browsing the forums, it is their job and the internet is a tool for them the same as it is for any of us. Personally I'd rather work with government officals as a community to weed out the people conducting any illegal activities, it could only improve our relationship with them.

Never said I had a problem with them browsing the web sites Ryan.. Its a public place and like you said a tool, which I agree to some extent. Don't get me wrong, but there are changes that need to be made, whether we want to admit it or not.. It is my opinion though Ryan, that the government really needs to stay out of my business, that would be one way my relationship would improve with them, but again this is me..

Sorry to hear you are leaving Sask though. If I am right, you, and your wife have spent a lot of time dealing with the laws and what not.. * Reptile Farm folks right??? * Boids are cool, and I don't really want them myself, but now who is going to lead the crusade in Saskatchewan to help makes boids a "legal" pet? Honestly Ryan, I know we have had words in the past * differences in opinion mainly * .. It will be and should be a sad in Saskatchewan when you finally pack up and leave, I only know from a distance that you have made an impact on the way future reptile folks in Saskatchewan will see these animals as majestic..

Ah well, I have gotten way off topic now.. Should probably wrap this up before we stray way to far from the original topic.. But I appreciate you folks letting me rant and rave about the machine, with out making it a personal judgment against me..

Regards.. Tim of T and J