Lavenders

[Cornsnakesalive]

This is my first odd case, of many with the Lavender line that goes back awhile. If you didn’t read the title of this thread would you guess this was a Lavender Motley right away. What else are we seeing? You might guess Hypo Lavender Motley, but they are not Hypos are they? The breeding was a Hypo Striped Lav X Lav Motley. I obtained my Lav Motleys from a different sourse that Rich Z, and they have never proven to be carrying any other gene. They have been proven to not be carrying the Amel, Hypo, Caramel or Anery Gene. Carol could show us what a real Hypo Lav Motley looks like. They are similar but these are different. These are Lav Motleys het for Striped Hypo.
I hatched out 5.1 that all looked like this. I expected Lav Motleys het for Hypo Striped, and these are, but I forgot the female was a one of my “Sunset” Lavender mysteries. My male Hypo Striped Lav came from Roylance, and he has produced a similar morph as my in house “Sunsets”. Rich Z has as well, which we all discovered in a thread awhile back. I am guessing that the Hypo Striped Lav, that I obtained from Roylance, is also a Sunset. He is much lighter than other Hypo Striped Lavs that I have seen and more pink.

[Cornsnakesalive]

This is the best eye shot that I got. Both parents have what I would call blue eyes with ruby pupils. These are silver with black pupils. Obviously the eye genes don’t match up, but something sure did.

[Cornsnakesalive]

Here is a photo of the parents when they were young. The first photo is of the Hypo Striped Lav and the next is of the female with her brother. The last photos are of the breedings that produced these guys.

[Carol]

Beautiful snakes! The two brothers I hatched looked pretty different from each other. I'll need to get updated pics of the one I have left (the darker one) I sold the ruby eyed one to pay for my son's broken arm and ensuing resetting surgery last year.




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[Lore]

I apologize if this is off topic, but I am curious why you bring up the lack of ruby pupil, as I have a 1.1 pair which are clutchmates that are hypo lavenders, the female has the typical ruby pupils, the male has black pupils, and I initially found it odd.

[Cornsnakesalive]

Originally Posted by Lore_CSICorns

I apologize if this is off topic, but I am curious why you bring up the lack of ruby pupil, as I have a 1.1 pair which are clutchmates that are hypo lavenders, the female has the typical ruby pupils, the male has black pupils, and I initially found it odd.

I have a little different point of view about Lavenders than many people do, because I acquired my Lavenders from a different source than Rich Z. I bought mine from Tim Rainwater, who purchased his from Ted Frey. Ted Frey acquired his stock from somebody who bought some poss hets from Rich Z and produced Lavenders. Rich had the gene in his colony and was calling them Mochas at the time. I had never seen a Lavender of any kind that did not have Ruby eyes until I purchase some Opals, Hypo Lavs, and Lavenders het Amel from Rich Z around 10 years after I bought my first Lavs.
From my original point of view, Lavenders always had blue/purplish eyes with ruby pupils. We all know that the Lavender gene came from Rich Z’s stock, but two lines emerged at about the same time. A Lavender Line with ruby pupils, and a Mocha Line, with normal pupils, but some may have had ruby pupils, how would I know. I am one of the few that saw some of the original Mochas that Rich had produced. I happen to be in Florida at the Orlando Show, and wanted to see the country. Rich lived in Alabama then and we drove to his house. All of the homes in the area were raised, which I found odd, and the country was quite different than the west.

Rich gave me a tour of his set up and I wanted to see everything of course. His set up was different than mine, but very similar to other breeders in Southern California. I still to this day, remember how he explained his feeding and cleaning schedule. The one thing that I probably picked up from Rich is that he saved back a lot of his clutches. He showed me several and the differences in the clutches really showed up after a year. One particular new morph that he was developing where some Mochas. I saw quite a few that may have been yearlings. They were brownish and although they were different, I was not really impressed. I do not remember any odd colored eyes. I don’t think I had ever seen any odd looking eyes yet, other than Amels. I remember the Mochas to be brownish. I think, they may have had quite a bit of pink in them which made them look brown, because I have seen this today in my Lavs. Sometimes a brownish looking hatchling Lav will grow up to have a tremendous amount of pink coloration.

Now when I saw my first Lavenders at a trade show in Southern California that Tim Rainwater had, I used all of the money I made at that show to buy my first Lavenders. I still have that line as it was when I first got it. A Lavender with Ruby eyes, very little pink, and no other genes have been discovered in it at all including Hypo, Amel, or Anery. All of the Lavenders I got from Rich, were at least het for Anery. Some had normal eyes and some had ruby eyes.

Today, I have seen a lot of different eye colors, but I still find it odd when I see a Lavender with normal eye color, even though I have seen it quite often now. I feel that I have a Ted Frey line of Lavenders and a Rich Z line of Lavenders today. They mix very well, but each have their own unique qualities. They also seem to both contain a compatible gene, that makes Lavenders, look very hypomelanistic or even ghost like.

[Lore]

Very Interesting. My Hypo Lavenders that I have that are from the same clutch that have differing eye color are from Rich Hume's Cotton Candy Lavender lines.

I took photo's of them just a few minutes ago:

Male Cotton Candy Hypo Lavender (black pupils)


Female Cotton Candy Hypo Lavender (ruby pupils)

[Carol]

From my side, I only mentioned the difference between the two so you would know which one I was talking about. I have no clue why one clutchmate has ruby eyes and the other dark.

[Cornsnakesalive]

I have a few interesting sibling comparisons that I will take photos of that may be interesting. The difference between male and female sibling Lavenders is another area that is fun to look at.
Here are a couple of photos of 1.1 sibling Hypo Lavenders. The differences between the male and female is consistent with what we are seeing time and again in Hypo Lav clutches. This clutch is a very interesting one.
The breeding was a Hypo Striped Lav X Hypo Amel het Lavender. The entire clutch is Hypo, and they are all het for Striped Opal. The make up of the clutch was nice as well. 1.3 Hypo Opals het Striped, 1.1 Hypo Lav het Striped Opal, 1.1 Hypo Amel het Striped Lav, and 1.1 Hypo het Striped Opal.
The Hypo Opals have to be some of the first to be know to be homo for Hypo. I will get some photos of them for my next daily post.

[EeekSnakes]

Hi Joe, Since you seem to have a good grasp on the lavenders, I wondered if you could lend your thoughts on mine?

I started a thread about how to tell the difference between hypo lavs, anery lavs, ghost lav's. Susan responded, and based on some pics and her opinion, I would agree that my lavs are NOT hypo lavenders. Leaving the possibilities of anery or ghost lavenders ( or just plain ol' normals ). I know that bottom line it will have to be proven out, but in the meantime, if you have any thoughts on my snakes, I would value your input.

Here's my reply to Susan's response ( has all the info in it) Please excuse the poo in my pics, it was cleaning day and of course, I took pics before I cleaned

" Thank you Susan

These are the 2 gals that I'm wonderring about:








"A" has some yellowing through her neck area, similiar to the aneries. Both come from mixed breedings in which they both have the chance of being: lavenders, ghost lavenders, anery lavenders, hypo lav's. Which is part of the reason I bought them

The genetics are in this post: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39963

as are pics of siblings of my snakes. Which I see you've responded too as well. I thought I'd put up older pics to see if there was any more idea's now that they are older.

Based on your pics, and the ones I've searched out, I would say these are not hypo lav's. Not as pink as I've seen in the pics. From the lightest to darkest hypo lav, they all have much more pink than my 2 do."

Note: Lavender #A
Parents: Normal het lavender, hypo, anery, poss stripe
x
Hypo het anery, lavender, motley

Lavender B Parents:
Anery het Lavender
x
Hypo het anery, lavender, motley