creamsicle cross? - Page 2

jaxom1957 · 09-01-07, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by Dionythicus

In keeping with the softdrink theme, we might as well call them Black Cows (Coke and ice cream). I was actually thinking of calling the anerys Cola corns, though.

I love the idea of "Cola"! It fits the theme and the color is spot on. Anerys never seem to be black, more like very dark brown.

Draybar · 09-01-07, 08:00 AM

if you are going to quote Don and recommend the way he lists them that is great,
Don is the best in the field
BUT I do disagree with one thing..they should not be listed as creamsicle corn snakes.
They are not corn snakes.
They are creamsicles...a corn snake/emoryi mix.
You don't see them listed as creamsicle emoryis now do you.
drop the corn snake....just creamsicle
just rootbeer
just cinnamon...etc
my opinion...for what it's worth.

**Tom Thompson** · 09-01-07, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Draybar

if you are going to quote Don and recommend the way he lists them that is great,
Don is the best in the field
BUT I do disagree with one thing..they should not be listed as creamsicle corn snakes.
They are not corn snakes.
They are creamsicles...a corn snake/emoryi mix.
You don't see them listed as creamsicle emoryis now do you.
drop the corn snake....just creamsicle
just rootbeer
just cinnamon...etc
my opinion...for what it's worth.

I'm with Jimmy on this one!

Draybar · 09-01-07, 12:11 PM

I'm glad it is obvious I would never try to take anything away from Don or insinuate I know more then Don, no way.
I just look at the way the hobby has progressed and remember that Don has probably had them listed that way since emoryis were still considered sub specific to corns.
Elaphe guttata guttata and Elaphe guttata emoryi.
Things change, evolve and even devolve in every aspect of life and our corn snake language has and will continue to do the same.

I agree with giving as much information as possible
Pantherophis guttatus/Pantherophis emoryi expressing amelanism (Creamsicle)
Pantherophis guttatus/Pantherophis emoryi expressing hypomelanism (cinnamon)
Pantherophis guttatus/Pantherophis emoryi expressing wild type or normal phase (rootbeer)
Pantherophis guttatus/Pantherophis emoryi expressing the anerythristic and amelanistic combination of a snow (snowsicle)

or if you don't agree with the direction of the proposed or suggested taxonomy change

Elaphe guttata/Elaphe emoryi expressing amelanism (Creamsicle)
Elaphe guttata/Elaphe emoryi expressing hypomelanism (cinnamon)
Elaphe guttata/Elaphe emoryi expressing wild type or normal phase (rootbeer)
Elaphe guttata/Elaphe emoryi expressing the anerythristic and amelanistic combination of a snow (snowsicle)

There are many ways to list them to get the point across. Like I said earlier, though, some of these names are becoming synonymous with corn/emoryi crosses and the shorter the name the easier to remember.

Yes, any documentation associated with them should be listed more thoroughly but just hobbyist to hobbyist why spend ten minutes expressing the ingredients when one word will do?

We just need to drop the corn snake from the name
As of now they are not corn snakes they are hybrids.
I hate that word when it comes to guttatus/emoryi but unfortunately intergrade isn't truly acceptable with the guttata or guttatus being dropped from emoryi.

This is the same with Jungles...I just feel the corn part should be dropped.
They aren't called jungle kings. why pick corn over king? The percentage?
Jungle king/corns could work but simple Jungles will work just as well.

Ok, I am done...lol
no more rambling for at least a little while anyway

Draybar · 09-01-07, 01:53 PM

There is one serious problem I have with the use of cola for an anerythristic rootbeer.

rootbeer is a cola. there really isn't that much of a color difference or distinction between a typical cola and rootbeer. Cola and rootbeer both basically make you think of a dark, brownish soft drink.

once again this is just my opinion.

it's a start and at least it is a suggestion...better then I have come up with.....

**Dionythicus** · 09-01-07, 03:15 PM

I was just poking fun at naming them, I wasn't really suggesting a new name. After all, Black Cow is more descriptive than cola for a black albino....

But I don't entirely agree on dropping the "corn snake" from the emoryi hybrids. Even though they are considered by many to be hybrids, there are many who consider them intergrades and therefor still a corn snake in essence. Still when I sold my rootbeers and creams to a local pet store I simply called them rootbeers and creamsicles, and stated that they were hybrids. I explained what went into making them and they are selling them as clearly labeled hybrids, even selling them for $10 more because of it. I do agree on losing the "corn snake" in reference to jungles, because there is no doubt that they are hybrids and not cornsnakes anymore.

FunkyRes · 09-01-07, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Draybar

if you are going to quote Don and recommend the way he lists them that is great,
Don is the best in the field
BUT I do disagree with one thing..they should not be listed as creamsicle corn snakes.
They are not corn snakes.
They are creamsicles...a corn snake/emoryi mix.
You don't see them listed as creamsicle emoryis now do you.
drop the corn snake....just creamsicle
just rootbeer
just cinnamon...etc
my opinion...for what it's worth.

It seems that hybrids involving corns often do that - IE Jungle Corn, King Corn, etc. - I think having the phrase "corn snake" in it helps with marketing because so many people are told that they should buy a corn snake as their first snake (which I don't entirely disagree with, though I personally think MBKs are just as good)

The corn hybrids are often marketed with corn snakes as well on web sites etc.

**vanderkm** · 09-02-07, 08:00 PM

Have to agree with leaving the 'cornsnake' out of the names of these guys - though I admit it is a hard habit to break. I try to refer to them simply as creamsicles, cinnamons or rootbeers but it is often easy to slip back into the 'corn' when it is so commonly used. I do think it is important to make the distinction - as much to promote them as something distinct and important in their own right as to keep reminding people that they are not 'pure' corns.

We used the term 'jungle king/corns' for ours when we were exhibiting and selling them - just jungle tends to confuse people with jungle carpet pythons - at least in this area. Hard to imagine, but it was a problem. The name King/corn also sounds quite nice I think.

As far as what to call the anery version - I was not fond of fudgsicle, but can't see why it would bother people more than creamsicle does

perhaps creamsicle is just more familiar. For some reason I am fine with the creamsicle term being used as the basis of names for the amelanistic derivatives - snowsicle or snowcream, buttercreme, etc - but I tend to think the lines that have some melanin might be better named after the rootbeer side of things. Anything with 'beer' or 'root' in the name - I am really liking the bloodroot suggestion for the possible diffused rootbeers. I have been using 'gingerbeer' for the caramel rootbeers - suspect they will be very golden colored as they mature. Maybe Stoutbeer or Blackbeer for the anerys

- could use Amberbeer for ambers when we get them, imagine the possibilities - pale ale, lager, honeywheat, so many varieties!! Don't know what would work for ghosts though - I have a couple I am raising up now - no idea what to call them. Need some more ideas on this one -

mary v.

Draybar · 09-02-07, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by vanderkm

Have to agree with leaving the 'cornsnake' out of the names of these guys - though I admit it is a hard habit to break. I try to refer to them simply as creamsicles, cinnamons or rootbeers but it is often easy to slip back into the 'corn' when it is so commonly used. I do think it is important to make the distinction - as much to promote them as something distinct and important in their own right as to keep reminding people that they are not 'pure' corns.

We used the term 'jungle king/corns' for ours when we were exhibiting and selling them - just jungle tends to confuse people with jungle carpet pythons - at least in this area. Hard to imagine, but it was a problem. The name King/corn also sounds quite nice I think.

As far as what to call the anery version - I was not fond of fudgsicle, but can't see why it would bother people more than creamsicle does

perhaps creamsicle is just more familiar. For some reason I am fine with the creamsicle term being used as the basis of names for the amelanistic derivatives - snowsicle or snowcream, buttercreme, etc - but I tend to think the lines that have some melanin might be better named after the rootbeer side of things. Anything with 'beer' or 'root' in the name - I am really liking the bloodroot suggestion for the possible diffused rootbeers. I have been using 'gingerbeer' for the caramel rootbeers - suspect they will be very golden colored as they mature. Maybe Stoutbeer or Blackbeer for the anerys

- could use Amberbeer for ambers when we get them, imagine the possibilities - pale ale, lager, honeywheat, so many varieties!! Don't know what would work for ghosts though - I have a couple I am raising up now - no idea what to call them. Need some more ideas on this one -

mary v.

jungle king/corn has a nice ring to it. I could see a little bit of confusion with Jungle carpets. I have heard them referred to as "jungles" on occaison and as "carpets" on occaision.

I guess one of the things I have against fudgesicle is the anery rootbeers aren't chocolate brown. I know a lot of creamsicles don't exhibit the classic "creamsicle" oranges, and not all rootbeers have that golden/bronze rootbeer coloring, but at least there are enough specimens to match the description that it does bring some recognition.
buttercream seems to be catching on quite well. That is a good one.
I kind of like bachbeer....well I actually LOVE bach beer but I digress...I like bachbeer for the anery name but.... you just never know
Amberbeer is cool, I like that for any amber corn/emoryis.
There are definitely a lot of possibilities.
Even more important then the names is overcoming the stigma of how our evil hybrids are going to ruin the hobby.
That will be harder then naming them.

Well, at the very least I can partake in each of the beverages listed to see which I feel will best represent the morph.
Bach beer, amber beer, amber bach beer, pale ale, lager, stout, honeywheat and any more that might be considered.
It's a tough job but I'm willing to sacrifice for our hobby ...

jaxom1957 · 09-03-07, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by Draybar

There is one serious problem I have with the use of cola for an anerythristic rootbeer.

rootbeer is a cola. there really isn't that much of a color difference or distinction between a typical cola and rootbeer. Cola and rootbeer both basically make you think of a dark, brownish soft drink.

once again this is just my opinion.

it's a start and at least it is a suggestion...better then I have come up with.....

No, they are both sodas. Rootbeer is not a "cola". Rootbeers are flavored by birch bark, vanilla bean, sarsaparilla, ginger and licorice. Colas are flavored by kola nuts, citrus, nutmeg, cinnamon and vanilla. They are distinctly different in color, flavour and ingredients.