Hybrid conundrum...

**hardwired** · 01-20-08, 05:10 PM

Does anyone have any interest in albino x creamsicle corns? I have two albinos, one albino motley and one pinstripe albino and one creamsicle stripe that came out of the same clutch and I am not sure what I should do with them. I was testing the claim that a lot of corns are hybrids and my albino that I picked up from Glades threw one creamsicle baby out of seven eggs for the last two years running. I was surprised and I wondered if that supported the claim that a lot of albinos are red versions of creamsicle crosses in anyway or not. If she were 100% corn then she should not have thrown any creamsicles right? They would have been albinos het creamsicle right? Help, my brain is hurting over trying to figure this out. Now I have made some hybrids and I do not know what to do with them. They are pretty but I really have enough hybrids right now.

**CrotalusCo** · 01-20-08, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by hardwired

Does anyone have any interest in albino x creamsicle corns? I have two albinos, one albino motley and one pinstripe albino and one creamsicle stripe that came out of the same clutch and I am not sure what I should do with them. I was testing the claim that a lot of corns are hybrids and my albino that I picked up from Glades threw one creamsicle baby out of seven eggs for the last two years running. I was surprised and I wondered if that supported the claim that a lot of albinos are red versions of creamsicle crosses in anyway or not. If she were 100% corn then she should not have thrown any creamsicles right? They would have been albinos het creamsicle right? Help, my brain is hurting over trying to figure this out. Now I have made some hybrids and I do not know what to do with them. They are pretty but I really have enough hybrids right now.

ok let me see if i got what you were saying?

you bred an amel corn to a creamsicle?

that would explain why they are albino looking. and officially they are all creamsicles.

Creamsicle is any amel cross between a corn and an emory so even 75% corn and %25 emory are still creamsicles

**hardwired** · 01-20-08, 09:09 PM

Oh thank goodness! I thought I was going a little batty there. I calculated it out to 25% as well. Yes, that is exactly what I did. They look so much like albinos though that I wasn't sure if you could call them creamsicles anymore. That is with one exception, a little striped male that came out of the group. However I was talking with someone at the local PS and they said that they would be albinos and that is the way they sold them. It caused me some confusion. Also, If one baby comes out looking like a creamsicle does that mean that the mother was a carrier and perhaps a creamsicle also possibly in a smaller percentage? I love creamsicles so I want to be sure I understand what I am seeing here.

**CrotalusCo** · 01-20-08, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by hardwired

Oh thank goodness! I thought I was going a little batty there. I calculated it out to 25% as well. Yes, that is exactly what I did. They look so much like albinos though that I wasn't sure if you could call them creamsicles anymore. That is with one exception, a little striped male that came out of the group. However I was talking with someone at the local PS and they said that they would be albinos and that is the way they sold them. It caused me some confusion. Also, If one baby comes out looking like a creamsicle does that mean that the mother was a carrier and perhaps a creamsicle also possibly in a smaller percentage? I love creamsicles so I want to be sure I understand what I am seeing here.

I am not sure you are understanding what a creamsicle is.

90% of the time it is

albino cornsnake bred to emory ratsnake = normal hybrids "rootbeers" het for albino "creamsicle"

these normal offspring het for albino "called rootbeers" are then bred to produce albino offspring "called creamsicle"

creamsicle is not a separate morph its just an albino hybrid of those 2 snakes

it can also be done with normal cornsnake and albino emory but would still be called a creamsicle

hybrid cornsnakeXemory = rootbeer if normal colored
hybrid cornsnakeXemory = creamsicle if amelanistic
hybrid cornsnakeXemory = cinnamon if hypo

the reason why most of yours look more albinoish is because they are 75% albino cornsnake and only 25% emory

the orange comes from the emory

**Dionythicus** · 01-21-08, 01:42 PM

All your albinos are 100% creamsicle (Emoryi/corn), like Dan said. There can be tremendous variation in colour in a clutch. Not all creamsicles are that lighter orange colour. I got a clutch this year that only produced four that I considered nice creamsicles, the rest were more red like a pure corn. Whatever pet store you talked to needs to understand the importance of labeling them as hybrids, not merely albinos.

**hardwired** · 01-22-08, 08:13 AM

Thank you guys! I am humbled and I am learning fast so please bear with me. I get that the pet store was wrong even though I may not have understood or argued my position very well. Hopefully I will do a better job now that I have a better understanding. I did not get the relation to rootbeers or cinnamons until Crotalus made the connection for me. I did get that all of my offspring have emoryi blood. What I want to know is this:

Is there a reliable way to tell if a parent corn has emoryi blood in it? If a pet store is making this kind of mistake I am sure that they are not the only ones. How do you tell if you have an albino corn or a creamsicle that looks like an albino corn? Are there breeding trials that you can use or is there no way to tell?

I hope I am not being to difficult to teach.

I just thought I might be able to tell by breeding trials like in the stargazer project. Thanks for your help and understanding!

Regards,

Laura

cka · 01-22-08, 10:24 AM

There is no easy way to tell. The amelanistics that hatch out can look just like any amelanistic corn. They are "generally" more orange or yellow than one that doesn't have emory in its background, but as the percentage of emory background gets reduced, via back crossing, it just makes it harder to tell. Rootbeers, the normal looking crosses, tend to have a brownish "cast" to them, but again it can be real hard to differentiate between a cross and a normal corn...

**Dionythicus** · 01-22-08, 03:20 PM

I wish there was an easy way to tell!! I think some are easier to tell as Emoryi hybrids than others based on head shape, saddle count, colour, etc., but it's not exact. I found this male at a pet store and knew immediately that he was probably a rootbeer and that's how I have him labeled. He looks so much more like an Emoryi to me. This isn't the best pic to reflect that. All I found out from the breeder (moron) was that the mother was red and the hatchlings look just like the father. I'm wondering if the father was pure Emoryi or if this baby was just a throw back to the Emoryi genes.

**Javen** · 01-23-08, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Dionythicus

I wish there was an easy way to tell!! I think some are easier to tell as Emoryi hybrids than others based on head shape, saddle count, colour, etc., but it's not exact. I found this male at a pet store and knew immediately that he was probably a rootbeer and that's how I have him labeled. He looks so much more like an Emoryi to me. This isn't the best pic to reflect that. All I found out from the breeder (moron) was that the mother was red and the hatchlings look just like the father. I'm wondering if the father was pure Emoryi or if this baby was just a throw back to the Emoryi genes.

It's so sad that people who have done no research seem to have the most opportunity to breed snakes and not know a thing about them, and yet some of us noob breeders are attempting to pass the time learning all we can before we actually... FINALLY get a chance...

galenwbritt · 01-23-08, 07:40 AM

And that would be where knowing and caring come in..........making lifelong friends or making short lived money. Until "those" stores/places/people get involved in forums, groups and clubs.........and actually realize what is right and wrong, they will continue to operate that way. Which in turn, makes it harder on the rest of the people who are trying to do it correctly.

G