Transcription of the chat with Ruth Hanney (March 30th)

[Caroline]

Caroline : Ok, first of all, I would like to thanks Ruth to have accepted the invitation.
Ruth was introduce to Corn by Jeff, his husband in 2002. She started breeding in 2004 when she become more interested by the genetic. She is now doing more than 10 shows accross Canada and produce a lots of babies each year.

HanneysCorns : Well thank you for the introduction Caroline and I am honoured to be invited here. I've never done this before but there is a first time for everything

Caroline : So, how many snakes do you have? Lol

HanneysCorns : not fair...i honestly don't know

WalterSmith : Do oyu plan to produce anything new and exciting this year? If so, care to share?

HanneysCorns : well this year I'm excited about a couple of matchups. I have witnessed breeding of my quad hets and could possible produce some lavender bloods this year. I also have some Sunkissed matchups on the go...and the most thrilling part is the fact that they are S* factor clean. My first clutch of Candy Canes and lots of my diffused projects are going ahead this year....fires are on the list

Caroline : What do you find the most difficult in the Canadian market?

HanneysCorns : Many folks here in Canada just don't understand or want to understand corn genetics. That to me can be frustrating at times. They see corns as being the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to keeping herps...why, I just don't know
Lots of folks have just now started appreciating how beautiful and awesome they are to work with ok

MattKennedy : Considering you attend reptile shows pretty much from coast to coast, what do you find are the most significant differences from a show out West, compared to one out East?

HanneysCorns : Appreciation of quality...not the price. That has to be the one thing that stand out in my mind. In many cases folks in the east just want to have corns...as cheap as they can find them. Thus there is now an influx of folks breeding them and they don't realize that the more produced the more disposable in nature the hobby becomes

Caroline : What do you find the most difficult with breeding a lots of babies. Do you keep track of all their genetic?

HanneysCorns : You know, sometimes folks think that its competition I fear...not at all. I fear the fact that soon we will be overrun by normals, amels, snows and when you really consider the cost of raising a healthy hatchling...getting $10 for all your work just isn't worth the effort. The genetics are kept track of on cards that each baby has on it's container. Clutches are given # which have the parents initials. Usually I'm fairly good at not losing those labels...lol. The most difficult part has to be the time...at prime hatchling season it can be a 12 hour day for sure

Caroline : How do you see the future of the Corns in Canada?

HanneysCorns : What do I see...well what I hope for is a co operative effort by Canadian breeders to work together so that bloodlines are rejuvenated and renewed, so that all morphs can be represented here in this country. I hope and long to see communication between us all...perhaps each of us working not only independently with our specialized favorites, but also collectively so that new ideas, new morphs can also be realized here in this country. I'd like to ask how others view this hobby here in Canada...i see a few Canadian faces in the chat room. It doesn't have to be about me. And we also have some 'big breeders' here from down south....was it the same in the U.s.

Becky : Will you be shipping to the Us? I can’t remember if you do or not.

HanneysCorns : No unfortunately here in Canada, we don't have access to ground shipping and air freight is becoming more and more difficult

Mysterry : This is Actually her daughter Cat_eyed_lady. I was wondering how long after a female starts to 'spine up' does she usually lay?

HanneysCorns : well I have found that after pre lay it is usually within 10 days

MattKennedy : Not to cut in line, but to answer Ruth's earlier question...out in Alberta, I'm finding alot of people are becoming frustrated with the corn market and I personally know of three breeders who are in the process of selling off their entire corn collections. Alot of us are finding that corns are quickly becoming considered 'disposable pets'. Like Ruth said, it's not worth all the work, when you're only making $10 on a hatchling. The genetics are fun, but it's becoming difficult to sell hatchlings when every second table at a show is a corn breeder (I know, I know, I'm part of the problem). So, that's my take on the corn future out here... Sorry to interupt....

HanneysCorns : as for the spine showing, that can start about a week before pre lay shed. Not at all Matt...feel free...yes the backyard producers are over producing and we are at a loss to stop the process...supply and demand for sure

WalterSmith : Ruth, not sure if you have, but do you plan to attend the show in Daytona at all?

HanneysCorns : I would love to come to Daytona. Jeff and I were actually talking about this. I'm hoping and planning for '09 on that one. It's a long trip for us just to get to Toronto...let alone Daytona...lol

Caroline : Ruth, to answer your question, I also find it difficult. Yes corn is more and more popular and on top of that it is relatively easy to get the corns from Us. So we are a lot to sell for not that many buyers. Peoples here want new stuff but don't want to pay for it

HanneysCorns : I know that at one time we all looked south of the border for our corns...now we are able to produce most morphs here in Canada. Many dollars and much effort was put in a few years ago by some of the Canadian breeders to import to get these genes into Canada.

Caroline : I find that in Us they have the same problem and now several snakes are sold at 10$ which is really not enough Imo

HanneysCorns : This year and next you will see most of the morphs here in Canada. The Canadian breeders and those who participate on the forums understand the quality and why the pricing is the way it is. The most interesting thing is...i couldn't sell Ultramels for even a $100 this year because folks dont understand the genetics. Each year up here the 'flavour of the moment' sells...if you produce that flavour, you can do well. If you don't, well folks just walk right on by. The genetics just aren't appreciated in most cases. Two years ago folks thought bloodreds ugly...now everybody wants them. It's the hype we as the breeders have to do unfortunately....participate, educate and keep folks interested in what's new...ok

Becky : Because of the market, do you ever feel like you have to produce just corns that are popular, and not necessarily what you actually like?

HanneysCorns : Well, I do this strictly as a hobby. Last year I tried to please everybody and swamped myself. Yes I sold everything I produced but was exhausted by year end. This year I am only looking to produce what I want for my projects...maybe that's selfish but it's my time, my expense, and my energy that goes into getting these hatchlings ready for sale, so I'm only doing high end morphs in limited quanitites...as few normals, and regular morphs as possible when I choose my matchups. ok

WalterSmith : What is the newest morph up there?

HanneysCorns : Well, the only thing I personally am missing is 'cinder'...i have pretty much all of the others in some form or another. I just brought in dilutes and champagnes this year to add to the collection. My particular interests are in the hypomelanistic family...and I believe we have only touched the tip of the iceberg there/ ok

WalterSmith : What about the Pied-sided Bloods?

HanneysCorns : Oh how I wish....i would love one. Seriously, I think Annette has some from Don's, but nothing to compare with what I have seen in Rob's collection or some of the others. There is a white sided granite being talked about up here but I haven't really investigated or seen one yet

MattKennedy : (there are huge numbers of the whitesided granites/pewters/bloodreds out West)

HanneysCorns : I do believe Annette bought up Troys collection which was mostly from Don's stock. I haven't personally seen any of the white sided variety...or what I would call white sided. ok

WalterSmith : I was just curious if any of our P/s line made it up there yet.

HanneysCorns : I don't think so at this point. If you do track a Canadian breeder who has one...i'm very interested. As I said, I'd love to have one myself. I find the whole phenomenon very interesting to say the least....can you imagine an anery blood with those white sides as stark as Rob's pied sided bloods ok. I think up here in Canada there is definite confusion on what is being labelled as P/s with some breeders

Caroline : Yea I think there are a lot of confusion for several morphs

HanneysCorns : well, I'm glad you said it not me....lol

Caroline : What would be your perfect project?

HanneysCorns : Ultra Lavender diffused, Sunkissed lavender diffused....i'm planning hets this year for that very project

EeekSnakes : good luck Ruth, may the egg Gods be with you. A very interesting project indeed.

HanneysCorns : well as I mentioned, the hypos interest me. I also would like to further work with my Ultra Caramels and Ultramel Caramels

RobStevens : Hey Ruth The way i see it,anything with Sunkissed is pretty hot!sounds like some neat projects.

HanneysCorns : well...trying hard with those. Especially now because working with clean S* factors will skyrocket once they become available. I am just loving what I see with those sunkisseds. Their patterns are wicked to say the least. I'd love to see if that patterning gene can be isolated that the sunkissed have...wouldn't that be spectacular if we could work it into all the other morphs too

WalterSmith : It's happening as we speak

HanneysCorns : We are so far behind in reality to our U.s. counterparts but then they have the luck of being much more organized than we are...and there are so many more of you than us...lol Yes, I know...and I'm totally excited about that Walter

RobStevens : We got on the Sunkissed train a little late also.i will have to get to my buddy Walters and snatch up a few of his top secret Sunkissed projects.

HanneysCorns : You will be totally amazed with them Rob...i love the Sunkissed even more than the Ultras....and that's something I would never thought I would say

RobStevens : Did i type that out loud Lol.

HanneysCorns : These hatchlings for '07 are absolutely stunning. Chuck did an excellent job producing the hets I got from him

RobStevens : Can't wait to see some hatchlings from that group

HanneysCorns : You know Rob...those hatchlings I imported from you have lots of projects planned. They will prove out whether we have been producing dilutes up here for several years and never even knew it. And that Champagne female...wow...talk about pink. Excellent job you did with those. All the ghosts that come out of Alberta...originally from one breeders stock all show signs of being dilute...the breeder just didn't know why her ghosts were different than all the others here in Canada. The original stock came out of the U.s. years ago

RobStevens : I hope you luck in proving out those Dilutes.

HanneysCorns : Every once in a while new things do happen up here in the cornsnake world. We've got the Volcanoes from Darren...i've got a few of those maturing too. Hopefully I can do some outcrossing into known diffused lines to see if that will uncover anything new to help with understanding what is going on there as well
I know the Volcanoes haven't really been explored at all with only Darren working on them

RobStevens : That is one i haven't heard of.what's the story on those?

Mysterry : i have to ask.. what is a volcanoes corn ?

HanneysCorns : Well, a few years ago Darren Boyd did some crosses and the result is a very deep dark reddy brown corn. It does not diffuse on the sides, but the belly is red with no checkers at all. It has an odd look to it. not diffused but definitely not normal. He has done crossing back to bloodred lines and all the offspring are normal, but F2 again produce and show the same patterning
I actually acquired an adult male via a third party. I proved it out last year as being an amel, not a hypo as I suspected. Many of the offspring produced from this matchup lacked belly checks and in some case presented with red pigment on the belly as well. It's interesting whatever it is. I plan on introduce some of my diffused into that line to see if perhaps in the F1 I do show some diffused signs

RobStevens : Very interesting! Keep us updated.

HanneysCorns : yes, I will. Darren actually gave me a 1.3 to work with this year in hopes I can input some ideas into what is happening there
Just what we needed...another potential patterning gene, eh!

Caroline : What is your status with the lava gene? I mean your projects

HanneysCorns : Well I have 1.1 that are 2 years old now. I have an Amel Lava and an Anery het Lava. Both were imported. The Anery het lava male is ready to go this year but my female needs another year. It will take a couple of years to recapture the Lava all on its own, but that's the fun of the project. So if there aren't any more questions...can we just chat

Caroline : I have one

HanneysCorns : I'd really like to do the pitch again for the S* factor and how important it is here in Canada that we all become aware that it is here in our stock.

Caroline : When you have a project with hets, how many do you tend to keep?

HanneysCorns : Well, I usually keep back a 3.5 for each project. I hold them at least for a year to see who colours up and most represents what I am striving for. I will then thin down to a 2.3 the following year. Thus the 86 holdbacks this year....don't tell Jeff...lol

Caroline : So you can't have too many projects at the same time right? How many projects per year do you generaly have?

RobStevens : Wow I'm only at 85 holdbacks

HanneysCorns : What I have learned in this hobby is that you can't think for just this year. Your mind has to be already 3 years ahead for all the projects. Produce this year for what you hope to do 3 years from now

RobStevens : When i think three years ahead my head goes numb Lol

Caroline : And yes Ruth, you are right about the S factor. I will be testing all my sunkissed and het to be sure they are clean. Better work with clean aniimals.

HanneysCorns : Yes, but you know....3 years ago I did a dumb thing. Cleaning and accidently ended up with my pewter and opal breeding. Now this year I could possibly produce an opal charcoal blood.....3 years ago I called myself dumb...now I call myself pretty darn lucky....lol

RobStevens : I start lots of projects that way.

HanneysCorns : That's when I realized that the fun of the quad and quint hets is really fun! So you make mistakes too Rob....lol

RobStevens : I just don't call them mistakes.i am just looking toward the future Lol

HanneysCorns : I have many hatchlings like that here. Quad and quint hets that are full of surprised for the coming years. That's why I get so frustrated sometimes when I attend shows.

WalterSmith : Not sure if anyone asked, but do you attend any Us shows?

HanneysCorns : Folks say...well it's just a normal....why is it priced at $70.00...they have no understanding of what the real value is worth in terms of potential ok

WalterSmith : I mean, as a vendor.

HanneysCorns : No, I haven't been to a U.s. show yet....vending would be difficult in the U.s. for me. I am not a business as such, just a hobbyist so to do all the official paperwork for both governments just really isn't worth my time

WalterSmith : Gottcha. Just thought it would be nice to meet you in pearson

HanneysCorns : It's much easier for U.s. breeders to come to Canada. Did anyone tell you it's a goldmine up here...lol...if you are dealing with knowledgeable corn folk...
I think we need to have a big party myself. Hey, if I can drive 27 hours for a Canadian show I wouldn't think twice driving that far to meet the folks I most admire in this hobby. What a party that would be

Caroline : I think your snakes are all in vivs right?

HanneysCorns : So Walter...i am working on emoryi/corn crosses too...just have to wait a few years...winks. Yes, most of my corns are in vivs, but I have had to cave in and do the 'bin' thing too. Either that or move....my corn room is now 2 floors...lol

Caroline : lol yea was wondering how you were doing.

HanneysCorns : Jeff has been building me racks like crazy and I've bought shares in Rubbermaid...lol Hatchlings are binned, sub-adults are vivved, and the adults are binned

WalterSmith : Gottcha. I started a interesting Emorycorn cross this year.

Caroline : why the sub adults? to See how their color change?

HanneysCorns : I like to observe my juvies....and I feel at breeding time the females like their privacy. I wait until the sheds than put them together in breeding tanks....60 gallon vivs. Well I find in their second year the most changes occur and I like to see that. I also find the flighty stage of the hatchlings is over and the juvies are out more roaming their tanks. Hey, I need to see my corns....it's the love of the colours that first intrigued me. Binning them all would take that opportunity away
I do things a bit differently than many breeders. I keep my adult breeders together until the female is showing signs of being gravid. the male and female are then separated. The female into a laying viv and the male, if not being used for another female is binned. At the end of hatchling season, the breeders are then removed from the bins and put into tanks and the juvies are binned. I rotate...yes, it's more work, but I like to ensure before brumating my adults that none are suffering from the effects of this year's matchups

Caroline : So you tend to breed them on a longer period or about all at the same time?

HanneysCorns : now you know why I spent sometimes 10 hours a day in my snake room...i'm either cleaning, feeding, or moving corns around
I start the matchups after the second post brumation shed. The chosen male and female are then put into the 60 gallon. There they remain together...separated of course when feeding...then returned to the viv. I start misting the tanks and usually the action begins within 10 days
They remain together until the female refuses a meal or I feel eggies...often it's the meal not the 'feel' that gives me the first clue. Some of my females are like clockwork....if I witness the breeding I mark on the calendar and then start counting the days. Usually by the second week I am reducing the meal portion, some times there is just refusal period. ok

Mysterry : Misty starts breeding ?

HanneysCorns : sorry, I don't understand the question

Mysterry : you said you start misting the tanks and then action takes place

HanneysCorns : misting...yes, I try and stimulate the rainy spring season of their natural environment. I find those pherones from the shed just float thru the air especially if it's damp. Within 15 minutes of misting the breeding tanks I can tell if the female, any female is receptive. All the males are out and at the side of the tank where the odour is coming from. Then it's just a matter of looking to see which female is out roaming. If she doesn't have a male in with her at the moment...i find one quick...lol

Mysterry : ohhh like rain for birds ....dahhhh me not smart can ya tell lol....thanks

HanneysCorns : exactly. Because at first I didn't have a set up for brumation I used 'lighting' as my factor. Then I thought to myself...what would a corn in Florida be doing in the spring. So misting became a part of the routine. make them think it's the rainy season and maybe it will put them in the mood

Caroline : So because of that, you can't use the same male for too many pairings right? Or you don't mind the season to be longer?

HanneysCorns : I will use a male for up to 4 pairing giving them a break of a few days in between. I have found tho that if I have two females ready within the same day I have to hope she will still be receptive after he has a few days rest. having a longer season isn't really a factor for me. Last year my first matchups were in January....this year I'm witnessing them in late February and March. Reason...3 weeks longer in brumation than last ok
I don't think the season will be any longer in reality. I had females who weren't interested in males until May last year...i do find tho that the same females seem to be ready at the beginning each year. ie...it's the same females this year as last year that will be producing my early clutches. Those that produced my late clutches last year still aren't interested in the males yet

Caroline : And do you always try to make them double clutch?

HanneysCorns : Nope..not at all. Last year I had several who I did double clutch. Some that I did't rebreed went on to lay 2nd clutches anyways and those were mainly slugs. I thing that if they are going to lay a second clutch it may as well be a fertile one. Well that is what I did last year. This year, the number of planned clutches are less...and I'm still debating ethically and morally what I will do with any second clutches laid as I'm not really planning on any at the moment

Caroline : So you said you will have less pairings this year since you are only breeding for your projects. How many approx do you have planned?

HanneysCorns : Well there are 11 breeding bins happening now. I have 5 other females slated to be bred. That's all I'm planning.

Mysterry : this year you will produce less then usual how many would be a normal # for you ?.......thanks

HanneysCorns : Last year I produced 576 hatchlings. The previous year was 180. I have the potential to produce over a thousand if I were to use all my females. Many projects I'm not doing this year simply because there is not market for the excess hatchlings. Folks here in Canada just aren't into the high end morphs or at least haven't shown an interest in wanting something different

Caroline : So how in your opinion can we change that?

HanneysCorns : Education...with forums such as this. With doing shows. It's up to the breeders for sure. Most folks don't think of corns in any other way than normals, amels, snows, and 'black albinos'....lol

Caroline : I want to thank you Ruth for your time. That went great
Was really interesting

HanneysCorns : thank you Caroline and thank you everybody for listening.